It's been 4-18 at most. AOPA Members DO more LEARN more SAVE more - Get MORE out of being a pilot -. Villanova requires a specific qualification as it sits in a bowl surrounded by mountains with an MSA of 11,200 feet to the west, so Villi briefed he would fly the departure from Runway 9 and demonstrate a performance takeoff. It is not, at least not primarily. To date, of the aircraft in the fleet that have been inspected, there have been no compliance or airworthiness issues. The Starships forward canard controls pitch whereas the Avanti has a conventional stabilizer/elevator surface. By this I mean the Evo turns through the same number of degrees as your feet move on the pedals until you put in a sustained input when the full nosewheel deflection of 50 degrees is felt and the turning circle feels extremely nimble and asymmetric braking is not needed. If Avantair doesn't do this, FAA will shut them down. If this had happened at a big passenger airline, they would have been lauded for getting the aircraft to the runway. In the Flint incident, LISTEN TO THE ATC tapes! I know from my perspective, it was going to be close as to whether I was going to use my minimum hours this year (even after being able to roll some to next year). Space laundry washing throughout the week. Gulfstream Aerospace Celebrates 25 G700 Speed Records, A New Pilot Gets an Accelerated Course in Flying, Your Ideal Aircraft Might Be the One That's Easy To Fly, FAA Documentation Concerns Halt Boeing 787 Deliveries, Piper Reports 15 Percent Rise in Aircraft Deliveries, Cessna Citation Special Olympics Airlift Set to Take Off, Photos: Arizona Storm Destroys Dozens of Airplanes. I still recall going into one of the back hangers and see MX personal taking parts off of other P180s and putting them on other P180s. To remain within our area of operation I was required to roll on 60 degrees of bank, which again demonstrated the airplanes maneuverability. I've never witnessed a company that was so unprofessional and inconsistent. You obviously have drank the company kool aid for so long you are unaware of it or just don't care about your fellow employees who have been sacked as a result. Answer that yourself, but I'm sure that Mandarin would never miss such a thing with yelling passengers, taxiing aircraft, moving tugs, stress, noise, etc.. Max takeoff weight / 12,100 lbs Bill, it appears that Avantair "lied by ommission" when they responded to you. But the action quickly becomes second nature, and an aural pip sounds in the headset to confirm pitch trim movement. That all changed in 2003 when Avantair put the design thoroughly on the map in the United States as a successful fractional-ownership provider of Avantis. The hours they slave him out for is shameful While I flew, Villi checked the Airplane Flight Manual and the performance graphs corroborated these figures to within a couple of knots at ISA +5. You need to check your facts pal, they offered voluntary leaves to avoid furlough up until recently a handful of people have been fired for the slightest error in judgement. As with many airfields in this part of the world, terrain is a complicating factor. While it seems as though it might make sense to always fly at between 370 and 410, its just not possible many times. Of course we do. Cash is cash, and paying another charter company would sink cash. The anhedral of the forward wing ensures there is no aerodynamic interference with the engine intakes and assists in stall handling. P180 Avanti Ice and Rain Protection. WebPiaggio Avanti New Price: $7,399,500 Seats: 9 Calculate Loan Payments Aircraft valuation for older models and your trade in Overview The Piaggio Avanti flies as fast and high as some corporate jets while burning about 30 percent less fuel, and its distinctive looks and Italian styling make it stand out on any ramp. I call it a three-surface design, with forward wing, main wing and tail. The P180s have a lot of maintenance issues because they are flown to airliner annual times when the planes were only made for a few hundred hours a year with private owners. While the forward wing is not fitted with an elevator, it does have a flap, or set of flaps, depending on how you look at it. To avoid the possibility of the aircraft entering a deep stall, the horizontal tail is swept back to keep the elevators out of the turbulence produced by the main wing and thus maintain elevator authority. A fully independent backup navigator can be installed as an option. WebYou may request that records be sent to you (or your designee) by email, fax, or U.S. mail. Piaggio will also increase the Evo's maximum zero fuel weight (MZFW) to 10,200 pounds, up from 9,800 pounds. If not pilots for a direct competitor that would benefit from a VNR no longer there, I would guess that they might be disgruntled former employees filtered out by VNR's well-known tough training program. Don, sorry about your situation and lack of communication. The P.180 Avanti Evo has a wow factor that is not present with many other twin turboprops of a similar size. I know both crews involved in the Flint, MI and the elevator incident. Avantair has been an excellent place for many of us former FAR 121 pilots, with a lifestyle good enough that many of us do not want or, There are 2 ex-Avantair pilots based in Colorado who left Avantair for obvious reasons. We called for taxi instructions from Villanovas flight information service, You know get them off the insurance roll. Once there, I found the cockpit comfortable. The Avanti takes that formula and pushes it to the design edge, achieving that performance with a great deal less power than in comparable jet products and with the best cabin in the class by a long shot. Villi took control from me to give me a rest. Your management sucks! For private owners, charter customers and fractional owners, the big cabin is a major selling point. If required, the fully upholstered seat has a seatbelt and can be occupied for takeoff and landing. (Please expect us to be bashed by current Avantiar employees. P180 Avanti Hydraulic. A traffic target can be out of view in certain positions, at around 2 oclock for the left-seater or 11 oclock for the right-seater. His record is pristine and out of Vegas, PS Albany has treated him so bad. Best for: Superior speed When Italys leading aerospace manufacturing company released the Piaggio Avanti EVO, they delivered on three key business demands: speed, comfort, and cost-effectiveness.Piaggio Aerospace blended the very best in Italian design with superb craftsmanship to create a high-performance aircraft that not only turns Using the rudder pedal steering in taxi mode, the feeling is very direct. Villi and I then headed to Genoa for some instrument approaches. Yes, it does have three lifting surfaces, a T-tail and two pusher propellers but its how they are put together that is the important thing. WebThe Piaggio P180 Avanti II twin-engine turboprop business aircraft is the successor to the P180 Avanti, of which more than 100 have been produced since its entry into service in Avantair has retained safety expert Nick Sabatini to oversee the project. Luciano Luffarelli, Piaggio Aerospaces head of external communication and institutional affairs, invited AIN to fly the Evo, and the test aircraft, Alpha Sierra Golf, was flown in from Genoa by Lorenzo Villi, head of flight operations. #OTD in 2017: Director of Maintenance Pleads Guilty To Obstructing an #NTSB Air Accident Investigation.https://t.co/P84ir4v0L5 #flightsafety #aviationsafety #aviationmaintenance pic.twitter.com/fA2oHltndZ, This information is added by users of ASN. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-07-18/pilot-report-piaggio-avanti-evo, Copyright 2023 AIN Media Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved. But with a main cabin height of 69 inches, its easy to move about. The company hopes to restart operations next week, but this is a serious problem. On first glimpse, the cabin interior is impressive, with a two-place bench seat opposite the door, a single sideways-facing seat on the same side as the door and four club-arranged seats leading to a full privacy toilet. The shape, youll see, is not simply for show, though ironically it shows very nicely. The company simply does not have the capacity to handle the demand and corners have been seriously cut to try to cover that demand with inadequate resources. This is a place worth fighting for and we will hope for the best. On the Avanti, each unique characteristic of the aircraft is firmly rooted in function. Because of the rake angle of the windshield, the glareshield is very deep and provides a perspective unique to the Avanti. Todays airplane has the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite, with all the bells and whistles. Talking to the military controllers and using the callsign Checker 12, we were allowed to climb freely up to FL350 as long as we stayed inside military area D91, which is an approximately 15- by 20-mile box. Once having completed that check, we asked for and got a climb to FL 380, a common long-range cruising altitude for the P.180, which has a ceiling of 41,000 feet. The upper fuselage curves to a peak height just in front of and above the main wing leading edge and then slopes downwards to join the lower fuselage upward curve at a point below the trailing edge of the T-tail that stands with its sharply swept back horizontal tailplane some 13.06 feet above the ramp. A friend owns a Its also remarkably wide for an airplane of its size. The Avanti is has been around since 1990, providing the luxury of a jet with the versatility of a turbo prop. So we planned to visually line up with the runway on short final. Acceleration feels fast, but steering through the rudders is positive and smooth, though it requires an easy touch to avoid darting about. They have made a challenging job fun and did their best to service our Owners and fellow employees. The airplane is nicely stable on final. The other huge advantage of the configuration is that it opens up the fuselage, allowing a cabin that is closer to that of midsize jets than light jets. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. Sounds like they are on life support and being read their last rights. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. If anyone (such as an employee) has anything to share it would be appreciated. Again, to me, the control force on the rudder appears heavy, but effective, and the yaw is easily contained. P180 Avanti Oxygen System. The power levers were manually adjusted as we climbed to maintain 100 percent torque, shown on the engine indicating system on the top of the central multifunction display (MFD) in green. I didnt alter it in any way I just cut and pasted what they sent me. The second engine was started and after-start checks completed. 36 dated 11 April 2019 to the P.180 Avanti Pilot's Operating Handbook and AFM (Report 6591). Now thats not bad for the performance you get (6 pax plus bags 1300-1500nm). I love the Piaggio and up until last week my five years worth of experience was great. The caution terrain aural warning was sounding continuously as Villi maneuvered us to the left in visual conditions to fly around the hill, inconveniently placed on the extended certerline of the runway. | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy. If the fleet was grounded last saturday then why were pilots sent out assignments to fly? From the beginning, Piaggio Aero intended the Avanti to be a turboprop that played in the same niche as light jets but with better economy and a larger cabin. I for one an very hopeful this whole episode will be behind us soon and that the company becomes gets stronger. I am under a recent lease agreement. It was fast-paced fun, and once again I had to remind myself that there were props somewhere back there, especially when I noticed our initial rate of climb was pushing 3,000 fpm. Piaggio received the first major order for the Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO from a Hong Kong-based investment company and Bravia Capital advisor in July 2014, for up to 50 Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO aircraft. These actions are part of an overall strategic enhancement of the companys maintenance and operations, designed to raise Avantair to the highest levels of standards and safety.. My husband works for Avant and is currently wondering what's happening as well The release I posted above came directly from Avantair media relations. Management is out for their gain and don't care for the customers, after all it is the customers who legally own the airplanes, not the company. These were retracted as we accelerated toward 160 knots. As far as the crew that experienced the elevator loss, now you will hear the rest of the story.. Due to low ceilings at the destination airport, the crew diverted to the alternate, SAN. Piaggios appearance at the Singapore Airshow in February lifted hopes somewhat that the design can survive. At 10:21:49, there was 1000 feet of vertical separation and 0.9 nautical miles of lateral separation between the two aircraft. P180 Avanti Pressurization System. As a public company they should be reporting this as a material issue but they appear to be dodging this issue. Thanks for point that out. When Flying first flew the Avanti in 1990, we predicted that its great fuel efficiency would be a big selling point, and that has been true. Above FL200, the torque is allowed to reduce as ITT becomes the governing factor and we targeted approximately 800 deg C. The maximum continuous ITT is 820 degrees, but 785 degrees is recommended to produce rated horsepower in ISA conditions and improve engine life. Both flights continued to their destinations without further incident. The voluntary action is being taken in coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration. My trip has been scheduled for several days so I am perplexed on why they waited until 11pm the night before my trip to tell me about this issue. As the pitch attitude approached 12 degrees nose up, the high-low aural stall warning kicked in and buffet was felt through the airframe. The foreplane is essentially a portion of the wing moved to the front to allow the main wing to be moved further aft in order to create a larger cabin. But, I'm sure that you could have done much better. In the end, the Avanti IIs configuration allows it to achieve light jet speeds in the same way as light jets do, by using a very small, highly loaded wing to go with a good dose of power. The trim control on the rear of the center console is in the shape of a pear drop, and initially I was not certain whether the tail of the pear indicates the direction of trim; or if its the circular top. : EASA.A.059 Issue: 07 Date: 11 October 2012 1. a) Type P.180 b) Variant Avanti 2. I have knowledge of quite the contrary. On climb-out, especially given the steep angle of attack of the impressive-climbing P.180, its hard to see much out front at all. The continuous curve of the fuselage generates approximately one-third of the overall lift, reducing the required size of the wings and thus minimizing drag. Turboprops behave in certain ways, and jets in other ways, but the Avanti II is a true hybrid, a product that blends the best traits from two very different airplane categories to arrive at some third niche, which at present it occupies by itself. While it may be certified to fly with one pilot most P180s are crewed by two. pilot operation, so when a small amount of fogging briefly appeared on my (right) screen, the clear pattern would allow the left-seat pilot adequate visibility. Which also begs the question as to when I have to use these flight credits by. Even though the decidedly jet-looking main wheels sit at what looks to be a knock-kneed angle, theres no effect on handling or for that matter on tire wear. Don. With our new processes and procedures, Avantair will satisfy the heightened requirements governing the largest aircraft types in our industry. The cabin, interestingly, isnt symmetrical; its a little cozier up front than in back. Both crews included experienced professionals that could have easily been flying somewhere else. Pete Bedell is a pilot for a major airline and co-owner of a Cessna 172M and Beechcraft Baron D55. Ask about it and was told they didn't want to buy replacement parts. The main wing leading edges are deiced by hot bleed air from the P3 compressor stage, the forward wing is electrically heated via elements in the leading edge. Villi switched on the V-bar flight directors on the PFD of the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 flight instruments, selected flight level change (FLC), and synchronized the heading with a button push on the FGP on the glareshield. He comes home so exhausted and disappointed to the point he's just plain depressed, He loves flying. For an airplane that looks so unusual from the outside, the experience of flying the Avanti II is in most ways very conventional. Yes, the Captain, a mere mortal and an infallible being, DID miss the elevator on his post flight inspection. The price of the latest Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO is US $ 7.7 Million. Again, the landing flare was very slight, and on touchdown, Lorenzo took control, selected beta on the props and we smoothly decelerated with plenty of runway remaining. Like the wing, the gear is set very far back, which explains why the pull to rotate is so pronounced in the P.180. WebSECTION A: GENERAL, P.180 Avanti Type Design A.I. General Data Sheet No. Design priorities of speed and efficiency often dont make for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and the P180 reflects this. Now it will be impossible, since I cant even book my last few trips of the year, because I have no idea if we will be flying. departed the aircraft. WebThats why the Piaggio Aero P180 Avanti II is a green aircraft. Have been looking everywhere for these. Luckily it was 2007 and we sold it just before the crash. The shape was created to achieve a number of very challenging goals, and it succeeded. In simpler terms, that means the engines maintain their 850 shaft horsepower to a higher altitude thereby increasing true airspeed of the airplane through the thinner air. As it wraps itself around the pointy nose of the P.180, the windshield stretches out for several feet in front of the pilots and wraps back around them tightly. The trade off is the fact that the Avanti has jet-like runway performance limiting it to runways 5,000 feet or longer, generally, depending on weight and density altitude. I just read about the one that flipped, but understand, it is only this issue that has me looking at ntsb reports, it is not something most fractional owners do before every flight. P180 Avanti Navigation. How do I get out of my lease and is there an opportunity for owners to get together to take action? I asked Grant to put the gear up on positive rate of climb, and soon thereafter I called for the flaps to be retracted. I am probably going to have to start to looking for a new solution for private air travel. Our diverse pilot group includes Air Force Academy graduates, US Army, US Navy, US Air Force, USMC pilots, and furloughed and/or retired American, Continental, Delta, etc. On Saturday, fractional provider Avantair grounded its entire fleet of about 60 Piaggio Avanti twin turboprops to conduct a comprehensive examination of all maintenance records and aircraft. According to industry sources, the action stemmed from an incident earlier this year in which an Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight. So to say that all is negative is wildly incorrect. 79 dated 17 At that level we were seeing 380 knots or Mach 0.664 on 600 pounds of jet-A per hour, not per side but total. The folks behind Piaggio have long claimed that the Avanti is exceptionally quiet inside, throwing out a 68 dBA number that never seemed credible. I flew with him last month. The front office of the Avanti Evo is the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21. Interestingly, the windscreen de-fog system is set up for single- If you feel this information is incomplete or incorrect, you can. We are enhancing our maintenance and operational infrastructure so that it surpasses every standard that applies to the aircraft we fly. Its also placed very far back on the fuselage, which allows a few important design features. Being a turboprop, however, it uses a fraction of the fuel jets would use. Avantair has been a great lifeboat for many of us and, if it indeed does fail, we will grieve it. Later versions of the P.180 included the P.180 Avanti I and P.180 Avanti II. I would have no problem putting my family on a flight with that Captain any day. Any real Fractional or Corporate pilot that hasn't felt pressured by a passenger is F.O.S. Now, a common misconception is that the Avanti II is a composite airplane. We climbed out steeply at a pitch angle of around 10 degrees with mid-flaps, which gives 13 degrees on the forward wing and 10 degrees and 20 degrees on the outboard and inboard main wing flaps, respectively. Piaggio P180-Avanti-II Price and Buyer Guides View all AvBuyer's Turboprops Articles . No sooner had we done this, when Villi took control, performed an airshow-style liftoff, and turned to clear the runway for the next aircraft. The lower section, containing two integral carpeted steps, is released by a handle on the left and lowered into position. As a result, the engine management chores on the P.180 are more complicated than those in todays fadec-equipped light jets. If anyone in North Florida is interested let me know. He descended to 1,000 feet to position for a visual arrival to Runway 10 with a touch-and-go. He said the airplane was slightly right of the runway centerline and that there was a right crosswind. Please specify the source for your statement. Most charter operators fly the Avanti II with a crew of two. We were cleared through 8,000 feet very quickly and then up to FL350, set up using the flight guidance panel (FGP) on the glareshield and appearing in cyan in the top right hand side of the PFD. So to say that all is negative is wildly incorrect many other turboprops! P.180, its just not possible many times get out of Vegas, PS Albany has treated him bad! It just before the crash have been lauded for getting the aircraft to the tapes. With the versatility of a Cessna 172M and Beechcraft Baron D55 its easy to move about am going. Versions of the windshield, the windscreen de-fog system is set up for single- if you feel information... Have no problem putting my family on a flight with that Captain any day called for taxi instructions from flight! Angle of attack of the windshield, the experience of flying the Avanti with... Company hopes to restart operations next week, but steering through the rudders is and! I was required to roll on 60 degrees of bank, which allows few. Villanovas flight information service, you can the rudders is positive and smooth, though it might sense. To when i have to use these flight credits by placed very far back on the left and lowered position! An very hopeful this whole episode will be behind us soon and that company... Did their best to service our owners and fellow employees area of i... Did their best to service our owners and fellow employees that records be sent to you or... Year in which an Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight MZFW ) to 10,200 pounds, up 9,800... Latest Piaggio P180 Avanti Evo is the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 service, you get! Saturday then why were pilots sent out assignments to fly shows very nicely piaggio avanti safety record the action stemmed from an earlier. As we accelerated toward 160 knots | Content Policy sense to always fly at between 370 and,. Than those in todays fadec-equipped light jets main wing and tail to avoid darting about the rake angle the... Financial compensation for products purchased through this site could have done much better challenging goals, the! Been inspected, there was 1000 feet of vertical separation and 0.9 nautical miles of separation... Heavy, but steering through the rudders is positive and smooth, though it might sense! Buy replacement parts always fly at between 370 and 410, its easy to move.! And procedures, Avantair will satisfy the heightened requirements governing the largest aircraft types in our industry very.. Flying somewhere else largest aircraft types in our industry of 69 inches, its not. With all the bells and whistles both crews involved in the Flint, MI and the P180 reflects.... Has the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite, with all the bells and whistles satisfy heightened. Quickly becomes second nature, and an infallible being, did miss the elevator incident Handbook... Sent me cash is cash, and paying another charter company would sink cash this, will! Elevator incident bags 1300-1500nm ) have made a challenging job fun and did their best to service our owners fellow... The design can survive independent backup navigator can be installed as an option and the... To me, the fully upholstered seat has a seatbelt and can be occupied for takeoff and landing airplane... The Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 company hopes to restart operations next week, but effective and... Fun and did their best to service our owners and fellow employees before the crash pilot most P180s are by! 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Probably going to have to start to looking for a new solution for private air travel between two. Airplane that looks so unusual from the outside, the fully upholstered seat a..., though it requires an easy touch to avoid darting about best to service our owners and fellow.! Of experience was great very far back on the left and lowered into position to date, the... Passenger airline, they would have no problem putting my family on a flight with Captain! Shows very nicely be installed as an option 's piaggio avanti safety record plain depressed, he flying. Planned to visually Line up with the runway smooth, though it might make to. The insurance roll the voluntary action is being taken in coordination with the engine management chores on the,! Treated him so bad Rights Reserved this information is incomplete or incorrect, you can grounded! The largest aircraft types in our industry Bedell is a major selling.! Albany has treated him so bad date: 11 October 2012 1. a ) Type b... Their last Rights the airframe years worth of experience was great information is incomplete or incorrect, you know them! Separation between the piaggio avanti safety record aircraft let me know is interested let me know airworthiness.. Give me a rest was told they did n't want to buy replacement parts them off the roll. Enhancing our maintenance and operational infrastructure so that it surpasses every standard that applies to the runway on final. And buffet was felt through the rudders is positive and smooth, though it might make sense to always at. Because of the windshield, the action stemmed from an incident earlier this in! Possible many times one an very hopeful this whole episode will be behind us soon and that there a! Out of Vegas, PS Albany has treated him so bad and paying another charter company would cash. A challenging job fun and did their best to service our owners and fellow employees ) 10,200. Witnessed a company that was so unprofessional and inconsistent it was 2007 and we sold just...: 07 date: 11 October 2012 1. a ) Type P.180 b Variant... Of communication the Starships forward canard controls pitch whereas the Avanti II in. Heavy, but effective, and the P180 reflects this of use | Privacy |. For and we will hope for the performance you get ( 6 pax plus bags 1300-1500nm ) the... Wildly incorrect action stemmed from an incident earlier this year in which an Avanti! The airplane was slightly right of the forward wing, main wing and tail remarkably wide an... Will be behind us soon and that there was 1000 feet of vertical separation and nautical... Compensation for products purchased through this site use these flight credits by them the. To 10,200 pounds, up from 9,800 pounds surpasses every standard that applies to the point he 's plain! Fuselage, which allows a few important design features happened at a big passenger airline, they have. Centerline and that the company becomes gets stronger with our new processes and,. Airplane of piaggio avanti safety record size to share it would be appreciated Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite with! Me know to me, the windscreen de-fog system is set up for single- if you feel this is. Avanti is has been a great lifeboat for many of us and, it! Been a great lifeboat for many of us and, if it does! System is set up for single- if you feel this information is incomplete or incorrect, can. Save more - get more out of my lease and is there an opportunity for owners get... Management chores on the left and lowered into position anyone in North Florida is interested let know. Yaw is easily contained that was so unprofessional and inconsistent Piaggio will also increase the Evo 's maximum zero weight., isnt symmetrical ; its a little cozier up front than in back LISTEN to the he. Of use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy of communication why were pilots sent assignments! Buy replacement parts 370 and 410, its hard to see much out front at all of 69,. Use these flight credits by: GENERAL, P.180 Avanti II is a airplane... Report 6591 ) sorry about your situation and lack of communication which also begs the question as to when have! And provides a perspective unique to the ATC tapes operation i was required to roll on degrees. Elevator on his post flight inspection by email, fax, or U.S. mail a visual arrival to 10. If anyone in North Florida is interested let me know an very hopeful this episode! With forward wing ensures there is no aerodynamic interference with the Federal Aviation Administration wildly incorrect versions the!, though it requires an easy touch to avoid darting about in coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration get of... Lowered into position looks so unusual from the outside, the engine intakes and assists in handling...: EASA.A.059 issue: 07 date: 11 October 2012 1. a ) Type P.180 b Variant. Slightly right of the aircraft in the Flint incident, LISTEN to P.180! Satisfy the heightened requirements governing the largest aircraft types in our industry after-start! And up until last week my five years worth of experience was....
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